The season so far - My Rant!

[odds]

Right,

I am only writing this down to vent frustration abut the club and the 1st team that is put out.

I realise this may annoy certain members, but I want to say it to get it off of my chest.

I have become increasingly annoyed with the way that the club and the 1st team is picked every week, as are our team spectators when watching the teams and players.

I for one try and make every effort I can to attend training sessions to improve as a player, and although lately this is becoming more difficult due to work I still attend at least once a week. We need to be getting more people down to training so that we can work as a unit and not have to throw what is 'perceived' as the best 15 players of the club on the pitch each week.

I am not even saying this with regards to myself as I feel there are other players that are being 'neglected' for lack of a better word with regards to not being able to play in the 1st team.

I base this one at least 2 reasons:

1. The performance of the 1st team so far this season
2. The effort being placed by players at the club (please don't take this as everybody either).

Something needs to change with regards to the team that is called the '!st team' as we keep on getting the same results from the same players and if something does not change then it will only continue. I think the avergae is 9 points a game from use and we have had something along the line of 200+ points put over us.

I think the main difference that everyone has commented on both players and supporter is the fact that the 2nd team have a much better spirit when it comes to playing there games.

There are people who come to training show that they are willing to learn and show a lot of potential - and players that let their performance do the talking when it comes to playing on a Saturday for the 2's. Hoever, none of the players seem to get a look in when it comes to team selection the following week.

I think the team needs to look back to how team selection used to work and perhaps get a similar system in place now so that the people who put in the effort get the chance at least to play in our '1st' team.

As I said at the start this is not aimed at anyone in particular, adn is purely to vent my frustration as I do not like the fact the team does not appear to be doing very well this season. As a member of the club I want us to do much better.

Again, sorry if this upsets anyone, but I just needed to get it out of the way.

Thanks

Odds

[Ralphie]

Odds my good fellow that is a valid point. We are lacking something i don't know what but there is something missing!!! Oh i figured it out in two seconds PASSION AND PRIDE but we have to start again i think at times we play the wrong style of rugby we don't play waht we see in front of us.
Look your on the commitee can you organise a players meeting because it is the only way to get it sorted some people may not like this but it has to be done. I was extremely annoyed yesterday more to do with frustration than anything else we have good players but far to many egos.
If any one else would like to make there voice heard well put it on here.
Cheers

[odds]

I am not sure if a players meeting is the best way to deal with it - it needs to be wanted by all of the club and if something is going to happen then it needs to be done with everyone there.

I am just upset about it personally, and feel there needs to be a change too!

[odds]

Oh and Ralphie, I appreciate your honesty mate. Nice to know it is not just me that feels this way!

[Bigtrev]

This is a reply to a couple of your comments in the texts above.

1. I agree, we are a long way behind where we would like to be.

2. We are in this position because:
         a. We have too many people who think they are better than they are and are not playing for the team and because things are not going well they do not listen or play what is in front of them.
         b. The number of people who have made the effort to come training is very low. Indeed it is generally the same core 8 with a few who can only turn up now and again. Whilst I do believe many have problems with work etc, and thank you for those who do inform me of absence, there are others who think they can walk in to the team without any effort.
         c. Because of this lack of numbers we cannot practice team runs etc and we cannot utilise the Coach who has dedicated is time to try and improve our situation and our ability to play. Carlton, I am very sorry for the lack of respect shown to you so far and I can only hope you will continue to work with us.

To those who do train, thank you for your effort, you should hold your heads high and continue to berate any that do not come.

I am not going to back the calling of a team meeting, I do not believe that this will be of any benefit.

I am not going to call for a change in the selection process. The method has not changed from now and when we were promoted.   

The subject of '1st' and '2nd' team is a very broad one. In general there is not a set group of players for each squad. Players who merit playing for the '1st ' team are given opportunity. The gulf between levels is bigger than ever. There are many names being put forward by other players and by supporters as to who should play in which team and each suggestion will be taken into account. If anybody would like to sit down and think how many of last years '2nd' team players have played for the '1st' team this year you will see there is a natural progression and people are given the opportunity.

An open forum like this however is not the best medium. If you are unhappy about any playing issues you are all welcome to approach myself, Pete or Carlton to discuss and you will be given an honest and straight forward answer.

For a short reply I have waffled on far too long. Make the effort to come training or even come along on a Tuesday or Thursday and we can gladly discuss any matters you may have. Pete and I (or one of us at least) will be at every session.

[Bigtrev]

Sorry, forgot a point!

Those of you who played on Saturday, thank you. Although we lost, we have finally started to fire ourselves up and show a bit of passion.

Benny, Danny, Sailor, Thank you for standing in at the last minute. You all personally added to the spirit and definitely added value to the game.

Thank you for those supporters who stayed to watch on such a horrible day, it really is appreciated and I hope you can keep the faith.

Thank you for those who stayed and had a drink after rather than disappearing, again this adds to the spirit of the club.

Now is the time for us to all pull together, not to start moaning and create bad feeling within the club. Nobody is out to lose, nobody likes it. We are in a position in which only the players can change things around.

COME TRAINING

[odds]

I appreciate the reply Trev - however I feel the forum is the easiest way to air the frustration as it is easy for everyone to see.

Also on the team selection note - I think it is fair to say that the selection that is taking place at the moment revolves around the same players that continue to lose games.

To correct my figures we have actually conceded 299 points so far this season - surely this is a sign that the team is not working and needs to change.

As you also mention there are players (perhaps myself included) that think they are better than they are. However I believe that 12 tries in 8 games does go some way to proving I have a playing ability.

Also I think that the perception of some of the 1st team players is wrong, given that we can't win games.

As mentioned I do agree with your points, and I don't think a players meeting is required, but we all need to be made aware the issue is being addressed.

I suppose I should also thank all for their support in trying to progress me as a player, I do value the input from you. And as Trev said I think a big thank you to Carlton - we really need you to point us in the right direction.

Odds

[Peter]

Gents

First like to say sorry to you all for missing out on Saturday. That's the first time I missed a game through illness in 22 years.

This is the first and last time I do this on the forum. I would much rather discuss any issues over a beer in the club, but feel that I need to get the 'official' view in so that some of you we don't see down at the club regularly will know what’s going on. I will not be responding to any more comments on this thread.


As for addressing Dan's points. "Something needs to change with regards to the team that is called the '!st team' as we keep on getting the same results from the same players and if something does not change then it will only continue..."

There is no first or second team in this club only a senior squad. Training is an issue for all seniors until we get enough bodies down so that forwards and backs can practice 'club' moves we are never going to progress, and you know I've been saying that since the summer. Realistically a couple of years ago the club took the decision that we could not operate a 'no train, no play' policy, we just don't have enough members to make this work. If we all want the club to improve we need to train.


"We need to be getting more people down to training so that we can work as a unit and not have to throw what is 'perceived' as the best 15 players of the club on the pitch each week."

We have never ever picked a player on reputation only whilst I have been Club Capt. Selection is undertaken by the playing committee and advice is taken from a wide range of people including senior players. There is also an ongoing dialogue with the capt and senior players who turn out for the 2nds about any players who they feel should be brought up to the firsts. This does happen! we do talk and implement these things!


"I think the main difference that everyone has commented on both players and supporter is the fact that the 2nd team have a much better spirit when it comes to playing there games.

There are people who come to training show that they are willing to learn and show a lot of potential - and players that let their performance do the talking when it comes to playing on a Saturday for the 2's."

True, there is a better spirit in the players turning out for the 2nds, winning has a habit of bringing this out in people. But for those moaning on the touchline and those who are not even on the same ground as the 1st team, let me tell you. The lads who do turn out have shown in patches that they too have 'spirit' and want to win. It is there and just needs to be harnessed.


"I think the team needs to look back to how team selection used to work and perhaps get a similar system in place now so that the people who put in the effort get the chance at least to play in our '1st' team."

How did selection used to work to work then? I've been capt for three years, vice capt the year before that, and we've done it exactly the same way every season. We may not sit down on a Tuesday now as Carlton cannot make this night, but you can be assured that there is a constant dialogue of emails, phonecalls etc. and the result and method are no different from before. Forgive me Dan, but how can you make this assumption when you just don’t know the facts?

We talk to players individually and give them the respect that they all deserve. Would be nice if we got a bit of that back lads...

P

[odds]

Pete,

Granted I know that you are not going to reply again - and I appreciate the reply in the first place.

Again as I stated at the top, it is not meant at any indivdual. But given the fact I am a newer player to the club I do have an outsider view if you like and can perhaps see things others cant.

With regards to how it used to work I think you answered the point or it has been answered in the whole 'don't train, don't play' part, which I know is how the team used to operate.

I have not put this up to aim it at anybody - as I stated I needed to get it off of my chest as I am just frustrated.......

Odds

[Skinny]

Hi Guys,
I don't want to get involved in the in forum debate in any way as its not my place, but I would like to mention 2 things if I can.

1) As a senior player my head has been up my bum for about 4 months with regard to the club. I have barely trained, become frustrated on a Saturday and seriously considered stopping playing. Thankfully this little sulk is over and i will be dedicating myself to the improvement of the club as I used to. The main reason for this new revived vigour brings me onto my second point

2) To those who I played with on Saturday, it was an absolute pleasure. I know no one likes losing, and as I said I have really hated being on the pitch recently, but on Saturday in the rain and the mud we really seemed to gel in the second half, with our monster forwards enjoying the physical challenge, and I felt like I was playing the Watford I joined 8 years ago.

Lets keep it going lads!

[Bigtrev]

This is why this is not a good forum. Replies can be taken in ways in which they were not meant. A number of our teams grammar and spelling is not up to par, resulting in mis contrewed interpretations.

I have never, and never will, have a go at any individual on this forum. I am happy to do this face to face and I am happy for anybody to do the same in return (as you would have seen on Saturday)

We all know how the results have gone, we are all aware that the '2nds' are being successful and the '1sts' are not. We all know of the injuries the club has had. We all know that things need to change, somehow.

Again, as has been said verbally, in writing, by forum and any other way possible, a Team can only improve if they work together and train.

The step up in divisions from 1's to 2's is huge. That is not taking anything away from the 2's results, they are excellent, but these must be taken in context. I stand to be corrected but I would suggest that most of the teams we play in the merit leagues do not train either, this then lets us win by having some excellent individuals backed up by hard workers, skilled elders and youth. Nothing wrong with this at all, it is as as should be. The 1st have played against well drilled, well trained teams who have proved our point. We have improved in every second half of every match, winning 4 out of 7. We can do it, but we take the first half as our training session!

As Peter has stated this then lets us select a side which should perform, and has performed very well at times in the past and this season at times. We have made changes, we have selected people who have been recommended, some have stayed, others have not. Nobody that has played for the 1sts this season has a guaranteed place, including me, Pete, Carlton, Mat or anybody else.

Again I have ranted on. I am not going to reply any more. Talk to each other, that is what teams do!

[Bigtrev]

Sorry, last one honest!

Thank you Skinny, positives in a negative world!

[Sea bass]

what were the scores on Saturday ?

[Martin]

I agree with a lot of th epoints Odd's has raised. However, I dont agree with the suggestion that the team is not picke don merit. i myself have been playing two's rugby for the last few years and have had an extended run in the firsts this season when available for selection. I was training regularly when I didnt have this job as well, which i think helped merit selection. on a personal level Im becomming increasingly frustrated not being able to train or play due to the job, and am in the process of sorting something out with regards to it.

Its good this has been raised, because i think a lot of people are dissatisfied with continually loosing, myself included. I second Skinny's comments, I havent been particularly committed in recent weeks, some of it unavoidable through work, some of it my own fault. Hopefully having these issues aired in public with give us all the kick up the arse we need and enable us to get the season back on track, both on and off the pitch.

Come on Wats! 

[odds]

To put an end to it, I want us to do better and all of us to play to the ability that we can and do occassionally play.

We are a team, which is why I am not mentioning anything in particular and being very general.

However, I am glad that my frustration is shared with others and that me mentioning it has bought on a response.

Last point, I would also like to thank all of the people who work for the club and it's best interests.

Lets try and turn it all around guys